How To Drive Manual Bus
School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums Manual tranny Author Topic Active Member USA 13 Posts Posted -: 12:22:05 PM It's kind of a shame that you see fewer and fewer manual transmission busses on the roads these days. I guess it's driver preference more than anything. The last stick shift bus I ever rode was in the late 80s. My home district dumped its last stick shift (a 77 Thomas 36 pass) in 1993. BUT, there was a district about 30 miles or so away that had a 'true' uniform fleet: every bus was an International/Blue Bird conv. With a manual!
They went thru some financial troubles and didn't buy any buses for about six years. Then in 1994, they bought another Birdie with the Int. It had an auto tranny. They've bought about six busses since then (a small fleet of about 13 total busses), all automatics. Blue Bird rules!
Top Member USA 4413 Posts Posted -: 2:15:26 PM Oh let me tell you it certanily is a shame. I miss them so much!
Local school systems that operate school buses have an option as to whether school bus driver training programs will be conducted totally or partially within the school system. The local school superintendent is responsible for making appropriate recommendations to the local board of education concerning training for school bus drivers. Service Manuals Central States is pleased to be able to offer our customers on-line service manuals for a number of our products, including the Blue Bird parts catalog and Blue Bird bus owners manual.
Anyways a while ago like back in February I started a topic I belive in the General Interest Section the heading was 'Manual Transmissions- Your Preference' so if you want to look up information on how drivers feel about them you can look there. Some drivers still would rather have them, but most like the automatic transmission, although most northern drivers, even the ones that would now rather have an automatic did agree with me on the point that they make it a little easier to handle in the snow. Especially if you had a turn around, that was full of snow. I used to have one that I had to turn around in, and when they would plow all the snow would go there and they wouldn't clean it out and there was no where else for me to turn around. There were a few times I managed to rock the bus out when I still had the manual. Of course there were sometimes it was so bad I couldn't. The first two years I had my automatic we had mild winters, last year was a little closer to normal and I got stuck once, man that bus didn't like me trying to rock it so I just gave up.
I was afraid I was going to blow the transmission. They say now that we are going to be back to regular to above normal winters here in Michigan, so they better have another bus ready to pull me out!!! The manual transmisions and gas engines will live forever in my heart!!
MI bus fan- Thomas also Rules! 86-A It will go in circles around your bus. Top Member USA 1926 Posts Posted -: 2:21:49 PM I agree, manual trannies are the best. Itrs a case of laziness for automatic transmissions to be used. Like we say out west.
'ya aint drove a real bus unless its a manual' And I'll add to that its not a real bus unless it is a transit, but thats another topic. My '77 Gillig has a Fuller RT910 10 speed tranny, and I wouldn't have anything less.
'Preserving America's best - THE GILLIG! - THE BEST NEVER REST' Top Member USA 4413 Posts Posted -: 2:55:25 PM Steven: I agree you havn't had the experience of driving a bus until you have driven one with a manual transmission. For me I have driven International's w/ manuals. I havn't driven a ten speed.
That would be fun. I think I also agree with the laziness thing all of the drivers in our fleet have driven manuals, many just don't want to. The take off faster, and have less transmission problems compared to the Auto's. I will say though that there are some people that don't like to drive manuals because of a problem in their left leg, and I can understand that so I would order them an automatic. You can still order most buses with manual transmissions, but you don't see many with them. A lot of people stoped in the late 80's, and by the early 90's hardly any new buses had them.
Someone in this forum (I won't mention their name) told me to come into the 21st century and leave the manual transmisions behind because they have ordered auto's for 15 years in Florida and like it that way. Fine if you like take them, come drive in Michigan during the winter and you will see which is better on snow and ice. 86-A It will go in circles around your bus. Top Member USA 695 Posts Posted -: 5:03:26 PM How does a manual help in snow and ice? I only got my license in June, so I haven't had the experience of severe winter driving yet.
—Phil 'It's the same way some people are obsessed with cars. I'm just weird.'
Top Member USA 3368 Posts Posted -: 7:26:33 PM I agree with you all, the manual transmissions are great. I especially like the 10-speeds. Although there have been some times when I've gotten stuck in Los Angeles traffic in a 5-speed and never wanted to be put in one again (I think we've all been there), I've come to realize that they aren't that bad. They're actually a lot of fun. Of course, now that I've said that, I'm probably going to be assigned one from now on, hehe. It's the truth, though. They are fun to drive.
I know that both of the buses I own are manuals (one is a 5-speed, the other is a 10-speed), and I wouldn't trade them for anything. The one I have with the 10-speed hauls!I'll be sad when the company I work for gives up the 5- and 10-speeds.
That shouldn't be any time soon, though, since the buses aren't that old. As a side note, the only bus that I've driven with an automatic transmission that got the bus moving was a 1969 Crown with an Allison HT70 6-speed. That was a great bus, and the transmission in it was much better than the 4-speed Allison automatics that the later model Crowns have in them. Sometimes, I wonder if the bus I'm driving with the 4-speed automatic is going to make it up and over the next hill! Anyway, I've gone on enough for now. C-ya all later. PS - thomas86a, if you're ever in Indiana, let me know.
I have my Gillig here, and it's a 10-speed. I'd be more than happy to let you take it for a spin. The Buskid -Top Member USA 642 Posts Posted -: 8:03:46 PM Why has the industry gone almost 100% automatic transmissions since 1980? Faster (read less expensive) new driver training period. Lower maintenance costs.
No more clutches, flywheels, throw-out bearings, snapped driveshafts and axles, etc. A properly speced auto transmission (DT 466 with Allison MT 643 or Allison 3060 World will normally last the life of the bus without needing heavy maintenance. Better acceleration and traction on slippery road conditions. Driver can keep both hands on the wheel. Less driver fatigue/injuries. The constant shifting in stop-and-go traffic situations can cause repetitive motion injuries - especially if the driver is not very good at double-clutching. Downsides: 1.
Unless transmission has 'lock up' feature, engine braking assistance is minimal. The Allison 540 series). Special training is absolutely necessary if one is to avoid the Palm Springs-type of accident. Underspecing the automatic trans. An AT 545 with a 190 hp high torque engine, such as the 5.9 liter Cummins. The transmission cannot handle the torque and is destined to fail.
For a little more $$ one could spec a larger transmission. From a very practical standpoint, I believe automatics have long ago proven to be far superior to standard transmissions for our low speed/ stop-and-go application.
Active Member USA 47 Posts Posted -: 08:16:13 AM Better Acceleration in an automatic?? I always thought you would get better acceleration in a manual. When we still had manuals those things could take off fast, these automatics sure don't compare. I remember when I still rode a manual bus, and it would snow my driver liked to have fun once in a while and spin the tires, the automatics don't do it nearly as well, it has to be really slippery for those suckers to spin. If it's not a Thomas Built Bus, I would rather walk to school. Top Member USA 1639 Posts Posted -: 08:44:23 AM My buses are going to have atomatic but I would like to get some manuals I would love to have one or two I would love to drive one sometimes not all the time. I know I would enjoy it.
How To Drive Manual Speech
BlueBird44-always and forever my favorite bus bus #44-1989 TC2000 Senior Member USA 158 Posts Posted -: 11:18:16 AM My personal vehicles are all manuals. The only auto's I drive are school vehicles.
I am now driving a '99 Blue Bird International with a DT466E rated at 210hp with a 545 bolted to it. I hate hills. I joke with the kids that they have to get out and push!!! The bus would probably go better with a MT643 in it.
I had the pleasure of driving a 5 sp for a sub bus last year and it was the best. There was no hill that the bus wouldn't climb. I have asked for my new bus to be a 6+ speed with an exhaust brake. I can't wait to get my new bus (whenever that is!!) I absolutely do not agree with having an auto in a vehicle as big as a school bus.
I also don't think that the stop-n-go driving that we do is good on them. But, that's just one girl's opinion. What's yellow, 39 feet long and flies low to the ground? My #9 Blue Bird/International Active Member USA 13 Posts Posted -: 5:03:50 PM quote.' Ya aint drove a real bus unless its a manual' Our manual transmission busses are all propane conversion (read: gutless wonders) GMC's with 4 speeds (5 if you count granny gear). They shift like sh.t and you never have the right gear.
Fortunately my days of driving those busses seem to be over and I now have a diesel automatic, which I love. I've driven just about every transmission made in big trucks, and I guess the 'joy of jammin' gears' has gone away for me. I'm content to let the Allison do the work in that department.
How To Drive Manual Shift Mode
I like my 'fake' bus. Jim Top Member USA 3444 Posts Posted -: 4:07:44 PM Most drivers seem to prefer the automatics despite the problems with them. Mostly standards were used in my old district up until about 1987. From then on, it was diesel/automatic. I have seen a '91 International/Thomas with a standard. That bus is a beast!! Busguy33) 'Blue Bird: Always flyin' high above the rest.
Blue Bird: One of America's Best!!! ' Top Member USA 2298 Posts Posted -: 5:06:21 PM For every driver that CAN drive a manual trans there are 40 or 50 that can't!! If for no other reason than that, you can have 'em Joe Advanced Member USA 366 Posts Posted -: 9:25:25 PM Our newest 5sp is a 1990, Crown offered it up to the end. They're ok to drive. For a stick I like our bus 16 or big slow 10. Bus 6 is missing a tense spring on 2nd gear and I kept missing it last night driving it.
Pain it the butt. In some cases manuals are better for certain conditions like going up mountains, 10sp are good for that. More control in bad weather too. Stick shift is ok, They're fun to play around with.but on a trip gimme my auto anyday.
The coolest manual I drove is a 1952 Crown.4 sp Fuller with a low gear for climbing or offroad.a. to shift if yer not paying attention.so we nicknamed it The. I love that bus and everyone thinks I'm crazy. Buslady Long Live Crown Coach Corp! Detroit Diesel rules! Top Member USA 695 Posts Posted -: 9:57:38 PM I toured the Corbeil plant in Quebec on Wednesday.and in the conventionals there, I didn't see a single auto —Phil 'It's the same way some people are obsessed with cars.
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How To Drive Manual Smoothly
I'm just weird.' Top Member USA 3368 Posts Posted -: 10:05:12 AM quote: The coolest manual I drove is a 1952 Crown.4 sp Fuller with a low gear for climbing or offroad.a. to shift if yer not paying attention.so we nicknamed it The. I love that bus and everyone thinks I'm crazy.
LOL, you are crazy, Buslady. Every time I tried to drive that bus, I ended up walking away bleeding. Remember when we couldn't get it into reverse that one time when we were trying to park it? That's cool about the Corbeils, Phil! The Buskid -Advanced Member USA 366 Posts Posted -: 10:45:07 AM quote: quote: The coolest manual I drove is a 1952 Crown.4 sp Fuller with a low gear for climbing or offroad.a. to shift if yer not paying attention.so we nicknamed it The.
I love that bus and everyone thinks I'm crazy. LOL, you are crazy, Buslady. Every time I tried to drive that bus, I ended up walking away bleeding. Remember when we couldn't get it into reverse that one time when we were trying to park it?
That's cool about the Corbeils, Phil! The Buskid -That was so funny. You poor thing, you'd get that huge bruise on your palm trying to get it into gear.
I have no problem at all with reverse heheh. Tom drove it around and couldnt get it into 2nd!
Buslady Long Live Crown Coach Corp! Detroit Diesel rules!
Top Member USA 938 Posts Posted -: 1:22:11 PM Well,manuals are good for use on hills, but in some buses the pickup speed is really slow with a manual.90-17 Ward/Chevy Conv. Does alright but the sister bus, 90-18, is a piece of crap.It shuts off while backing up, is really slow, and takes forever to pick up speed.00-29 Thomas/International 3800 Conv. Is a much better bus. S.Jackson 97-12 It will outrun your bus Top Member USA 3444 Posts Posted -: 3:03:55 PM quote: Well,manuals are good for use on hills, but in some buses the pickup speed is really slow with a manual.90-17 Ward/Chevy Conv. Does alright but the sister bus, 90-18, is a piece of crap.It shuts off while backing up, is really slow, and takes forever to pick up speed.00-29 Thomas/International 3800 Conv. Is a much better bus.
Are those buses manuals with diesel or gasoline engines? The reason why I am asking is because I have ridden on both.
I noticed that the manuals and diesel engines were much slower than the manuals with the gasoline engine. ANY gasoline engine with a manual tranny could outrun virtually ANY diesel engine with a manual tranny.just ask Thomas86a.
Busguy33) 'Blue Bird: Always flyin' high above the rest. Blue Bird: One of America's Best!!! ' Top Member USA 4174 Posts Posted -: 5:35:05 PM You're right about the manuals being a littl emore fun.
I was hauling around stuff with our tractor which is a manual. A true manual.clutch and everything. I had so much fun going around with it shifting the gears.hehehe Do you think it'd be hard to add in a manual on my bus? Just kidding.
Stop at: Edited by - The BusBoy on 5:36:01 PM Top Member USA 4413 Posts Posted -: 6:06:48 PM /quote Are those buses manuals with diesel or gasoline engines? The reason why I am asking is because I have ridden on both.
I noticed that the manuals and diesel engines were much slower than the manuals with the gasoline engine. ANY gasoline engine with a manual tranny could outrun virtually ANY diesel engine with a manual tranny.just ask Thomas86a. 'Thomas: Always flyin' high above the rest. Thomas: One of America's Best!!! ' /quote You bet B.Busguy- when I talk about manuals, I am not talking about diesel engines, I am talking about the good old gasers. Those gasers with manuals can blow away a diesel with an automatic or a stick, no questions asked. Any gas/manual combination could blow away just about any other engine/transmission combination out there.
As for Silas J. You said some are slow on takeoff, it sometimes depends on whether or not the driver knows how to drive the bus, even a driver comfortable driving sticks can have a hard time in a bus they are not comfortable with. That I know from personal experience, we would get trainee drivers that would drive with me on my bus, and they would try to drive old 86-A, and stall it constantly. The clutch in the thing was wore down to nothing, I could handle it, but if you were new you had to get used to the thing.
Thomas Built Buses- The best buses on the road. Posts dedicated to 86-A. The best will never be forgoten. Edited by - thomas86a on 6:09:55 PM Top Member USA 3444 Posts Posted -: 7:16:35 PM quote: Are those buses manuals with diesel or gasoline engines? The reason why I am asking is because I have ridden on both. I noticed that the manuals and diesel engines were much slower than the manuals with the gasoline engine.
ANY gasoline engine with a manual tranny could outrun virtually ANY diesel engine with a manual tranny.just ask Thomas86a. 'Thomas: Always flyin' high above the rest.
Thomas: One of America's Best!!! ' Thomas86a, After reading your above post, I couldn't help but notice you changed my profile signature from Blue Bird to Thomas when you quoted my post. Busguy33) 'Blue Bird: Always flyin' high above the rest. Blue Bird: One of America's Best!!! ' Edited by - B. Busguy33 on 7:22:09 PM Advanced Member USA 325 Posts Posted -: 05:51:03 AM Most of the time I like to be shiftless but every once in a while I prefer to be shifty.
On a route, particularly a urban route, I much prefer not to shift. In fact, as John Farr as pointed out so well, on route there are many advantages to having an automatic. Recently I have had occasion to drive some Gilligs with their backwards shift pattern. For some reason ever since then I have had a real problem with shifting other vehicles with normal shift patterns. It is not good to try a shift a Road Ranger backwards.
In most cases, I prefer automatics. In fact, in WA state the spe'c is for automatics. If you spe'c a stick shift you actually have to pay extra for it. I admit to being lazy. I prefer to not have to shift gears by hand. When I do have to manually shift, I try to do so without using the clutch so I don't have to move my left foot.
One advantage automatic transmissions have that has not been mentioned is the availability of adding a hydralic retarder. In areas where exhaust brakes are not allowed you can always use a retarder. If you can justify the expense, a retarder can pay for itself over the life of the bus.
Have a great Thanksgiving everyone. Active Member USA 31 Posts Posted -: 8:46:11 PM In our fleet we have both Manual Transmission (5 or 10 speeds), and Automatics (4, 5, and 6 speeds). The thing is that after a few hours in heavy traffic the automatics are great, but on longer trips I like the control of a munual transmission. I especially like the manuals on the snow and ice.
I feel I have better control. As Phil says the Corbiel plant is building almost all manual transmission buses. Believe it or not, both Mexico and Canada still prefer manuals to automatics, but even this is starting to change now adays I'm told. Active Member USA 31 Posts Posted -: 8:55:13 PM quote: I agree with you all, the manual transmissions are great. I especially like the 10-speeds. Although there have been some times when I've gotten stuck in Los Angeles traffic in a 5-speed and never wanted to be put in one again (I think we've all been there), I've come to realize that they aren't that bad. They're actually a lot of fun.
Of course, now that I've said that, I'm probably going to be assigned one from now on, hehe. It's the truth, though. They are fun to drive. Gee now that I know how you feel I'll see if I can accomadate you when your out here (ha ha ha) quote: As a side note, the only bus that I've driven with an automatic transmission that got the bus moving was a 1969 Crown with an Allison HT70 6-speed.
That was a great bus, and the transmission in it was much better than the 4-speed Allison automatics that the later model Crowns have in them. Sometimes, I wonder if the bus I'm driving with the 4-speed automatic is going to make it up and over the next hill! Have'nt you driven 8404, 8406, and the 819x, they're 5 speed autos, and of course 20, it moves. Talk to you later Top Member USA 938 Posts Posted -: 6:06:28 PM Well,when 90-18 shut off while backing up it was being driven by a sub driver on a cold winter day.We almost ran into about 4 mailboxes when that happened.But,even before it became a spare and was on a regular route it was still incredibly slow.It also had a fuel leak that was making a bunch of kids sick. 97-12 It will outrun your bus Top Member USA 938 Posts Posted -: 6:10:45 PM I forgot to mention that all Unicoi County buses are diesel. Topic Jump To.
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